Mercedes-Benz Metris Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
557 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Easy peasy so far. Bottom line: I was shocked at how well the sound deadeners worked. I had been highly skeptical. I am a convert now.

Wiped down all surfaces with mineral spirits and blue paper shop towels to degrease per instructions. Re-wipe surface with clean microfiber to remove crud-glaze, not in instructions. Apply Noico 80 mil using serrated or corrugated wheels per Noico instructions. Smooth wheel would have been easier.

My application strategy was a version of stealth design, imagine breaking up sound waves coming from many directions, taking into account the natural flex patterns of each body panel. Noico says 25% is good? So you'll see sections where I went with vertically-oriented rectangles, others on a diagonal, others square, etc. My pattern was no pattern, but right-left side bi-lateral symmetry to the extent possible. Also, you'll see consistent channels on the roof where I left room for the 12/2 tinned copper marine cable I am using for the electrical load skeleton. There's some 12 AWG silicone jacketed tinned copper strand wire for splices.

The non-metallic liquid tight conduit is for a future 110 AC run to the rear. I used Noico RED and releasable rubberized zip ties to fasten the conduit so it won't rattle. Not your father's zip ties!

The roof was less strategic. I covered as much as I could because Noico says you need to apply the RED on top of the butyl. The RED was for thermal insulation. I noticed little sound improvement from the RED install, but the vehicle does maintain its interior temperature better. The test was accidentally burning my fingertip touching the roof interior in a gap between the insulation. I am debating whether to tape the gaps. I doubt I will as I don't want to trap moisture.

Speaking of moisture, after wiping the cavity sealant out of the body panels to install the Noico, I dutifully reinstalled MB cavity sealant, aka cosmoline. I did not have a high pressure spray rig, so I heated the sealant with my old school halogen flood light (worked on the Noico too) and painted it on with a silicone basting brush. I was careful not to seal the weep holes at the bottom of the panels, which you can just make out in the pix. Rear Drivers Qtr Noico Red 315 mil.jpg

Gotta go, more as it develops! Ignore the wood. That's where the 80/20 will start.
18175
Driver Rocker Cavity Sealant Cosmoline.jpg
18176
Passenger Rear Noico 80 mil.jpg
18177
Driver Rocker Weep Holes with Cavity Sealant.jpg
18178
18169
Cavity Sealant Application Kit.jpg
18170
Center Roof Noico 80 mil Step 1.jpg
18171
Center Roof Noico Red 315 mil.jpg
18172
Driver Rear Conduit Detail.jpg
18173
18174
Cavity Sealant Application Kit.jpg Center Roof Noico 80 mil Step 1.jpg Center Roof Noico Red 315 mil.jpg Driver Rear Conduit Detail.jpg Driver Rear Noico 80 mil.jpg Passenger Rear Noico 80 mil.jpg Driver Rocker Cavity Sealant Cosmoline.jpg Passenger Rear Noico 80 mil.jpg Driver Rocker Weep Holes with Cavity Sealant.jpg Rear Drivers Qtr Noico Red 315 mil.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
Looks pretty good!

I went through two boxes of similar sound deadener last week
( frustratingly enough my thread with pics & notes is still being held for moderation )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
557 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Looks pretty good!

I went through two boxes of similar sound deadener last week
( frustratingly enough my thread with pics & notes is still being held for moderation )
Can't wait to see -- BTW, all of this is going to get covered by Thinsulate SM600L, so I wasn't too worried about looks, just symmetry and proper adhesion.

So far just slightly more than 1 box (36sf) of Noico 80 mil and one box of Noico RED 315. I have another box of 80 mil for the floor corrugations and doors, and another box of RED for the rear roof panel and where ever else I want.

I've held off on the rear roof section pending install of MaxxFan.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
481 Posts
Can't wait to see -- BTW, all of this is going to get covered by Thinsulate SM600L, so I wasn't too worried about looks, just symmetry and proper adhesion.

So far just slightly more than 1 box (36sf) of Noico 80 mil and one box of Noico RED 315. I have another box of 80 mil for the floor corrugations and doors, and another box of RED for the rear roof panel and where ever else I want.

I've held off on the rear roof section pending install of MaxxFan.
I did the Nico and SM600 install...made a huge difference in noise and 'tin can' rattle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
557 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I did the Nico and SM600 install...made a huge difference in noise and 'tin can' rattle.
How about temperature? Are you satisfied with the Thinsulate as thermal insulation? Thanks --

I'm asking because it is really tempting to fill up those lower cavities, but 3M labels the Thinsulate product we're using as "acoustic insulation." I'm not expecting much in the way of thermal insulation on the walls, but I'm hoping three layers on the roof is effective.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
I was very happy with the thermal performance, both hot and cold, of the Thinsulate SM600 on my Promaster City Van. I just received my roll and am looking forward to feeling it in the Metris.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
557 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I was very happy with the thermal performance, both hot and cold, of the Thinsulate SM600 on my Promaster City Van. I just received my roll and am looking forward to feeling it in the Metris.
Great to know --

I tried to go conservative with just 20 linear feet (at the standard 60 inch width).

Roof: ~ 8-10 feet, depending whether I cover the cab under the factory headliner. I already have essentially full coverage on the roof with Noico 80 mil and Noico RED 315 mil, so I am thinking the two-layer crunchy foam headliner material
18241
might let me slide without trying to cram Thinsulate under the factory headliner. The headliner is relatively fragile, the plastics on the grab handles are soft, and it is clearly best not to remove the headliner more than once or maybe twice unless you are a super-pro or highly-experienced body person.


Passenger slider under CRL Window: ~2 feet
Driver's side B to C pillar (under CRL window): ~2 feet + factory and homemade insulation bags
Driver Rear: ~3 feet
Passenger Rear: ~3 feet

There's room in the rear lower panels for much more insulation, meaning more layers of Thinsulate. The rocker panel depth is too shallow around the wheel wells to use foam bags like the factory cold weather package insulation.

How about you? How much did you order and where did it go?
 
  • Like
Reactions: river

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
I already installed leftover Thinsulate above the cab headliner. Surprisingly, it made a noticeable difference in noise and heating this summer, even though the rear is not insulated. I believe I documented here previously how easy it was to do without actually having to remove the headliner. The back edge is held in place by 2 big magnets, which are easy to pry from the roof. You may even be able to carefully slip the insulation in without removing anything beside lowering the headliner rear edge by prying the magnets. I cut rectangular holes in the insulation where the magnets are. At the windshield, the insulation can have a straight square edge. There is no curve here. The sides can be cut straight and square to the width between airbags.

I believe I ordered 20 linear feet of Thinsulate from Impact Products. I know the total with tax was $300. I have too many other projects going
to have time to install it. I need to do some Noico installation, too, before I insulate. I also plan to use some of the lower wall depth for shallow bins/ cabinets to hold small items camping, so I will be insulating 1-3/4" everywhere, probably. I also started pouring Styrofoam beads into cavities I can't insulate. The beads fill small, inaccessible areas easily. They do not absorb water, so, do not create rust issues. I use Joann fabrics' bean-bag chair large size beads. They are 3/8" round Styrofoam beads. The only thing you must be aware of is that they will leave a trail of beads on your garage floor, and down the road, if you miss putting a screen over a hole in the walls that reach the outside. The holes are easily found and screened, one at rear corners, and one in frame rail under driver door. There may be others I haven't found, yet. The Styrofoam beads were invaluable in insulating my Promaster City van, since there were lots of closed small spaces. I built an insulation blower using plastic drain pipe T fitting and a shop vac. The blower picked up the beads from a bag and blew them into the PMC walls, similar to a cellulose or fibreglass blower in a house, but, that's another story...........
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
225 Posts
I love seeing more people taking care to insulate their vans in different ways.

@VanGo - I finally grokked your handle. Can’t believe it me took so long.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
I love seeing more people taking care to insulate their vans in different ways.

@VanGo - I finally grokked your handle. Can’t believe it me took so long.
It turns out I have some Dutch blood, so it just kinda popped out.
I hope you didn't spend too much time thinking. I didn't. 😉

Insulation and avoiding water/rust problems is worth spending some time on. The Styrofoam really solves difficult problems, so I wanted to share it in case it works for others. The closed tubes at the top of the
van walls come to mind. It may be very easy to just pour in the beads and duct tape the holes before installing wall covering. I'll see.

I have appreciated your posts, too, @river. This is a very good forum.
Ideas improve as they are tossed around on this site. Thank you and others.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
557 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I think the Styrofoam beads are a great idea, but a bit too unmanageable for me, as in once they're in, there's no easy way back (although it may not matter in those lower cavities. As I think we may have chatted elsewhere, I found small fiberglass batts of almost the identical configuration as the cold weather package foam bags. I'm thinking that double wrapped in plastic and taped to prevent water absorption, these bags have the advantages of being 1) cheap at about $5 bucks per, 2) a safe way to (not) handle fiberglass directly and avoid future water absorption problems, and 3) the same design concept as Mercedes uses. I have 'em jammed into the space between the driver's side B and C pillars for now, but I am not yet committed.

I am leery of fiberglass, but I am stuck on having a second bulkier insulation in addition to the Thinsulate, similar to your Styrofoam solution, but reversible if needed. I know it's not a crisis to vacuum out Styrofoam to gain access, but it's not my first choice. I have also ruled out animal products and solid foam board products of any chemistry. My objections to those products are olfactory not ethical.

Denim is interesting as insulation, but I'd have to retheme Metris as "Das Luv Boot" or some similarly hokey '70s Chevy Van moniker (think Mr. T and the A-Team) to keep the design theme coherent, err, I mean cohesive. But I digress.

Back to where I started, maybe those Styro beads aren't too much trouble after all? Did you do anything else for retention beyond the bottom end screens?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
I think the Styrofoam beads are a great idea, but a bit too unmanageable for me, as in once they're in, there's no easy way back (although it may not matter in those lower cavities. As I think we may have chatted elsewhere, I found small fiberglass batts of almost the identical configuration as the cold weather package foam bags. I'm thinking that double wrapped in plastic and taped to prevent water absorption, these bags have the advantages of being 1) cheap at about $5 bucks per, 2) a safe way to (not) handle fiberglass directly and avoid future water absorption problems, and 3) the same design concept as Mercedes uses. I have 'em jammed into the space between the driver's side B and C pillars for now, but I am not yet committed.

I am leery of fiberglass, but I am stuck on having a second bulkier insulation in addition to the Thinsulate, similar to your Styrofoam solution, but reversible if needed. I know it's not a crisis to vacuum out Styrofoam to gain access, but it's not my first choice. I have also ruled out animal products and solid foam board products of any chemistry. My objections to those products are olfactory not ethical.

Denim is interesting as insulation, but I'd have to retheme Metris as "Das Luv Boot" or some similarly hokey '70s Chevy Van moniker (think Mr. T and the A-Team) to keep the design theme coherent, err, I mean cohesive. But I digress.

Back to where I started, maybe those Styro beads aren't too much trouble after all? Did you do anything else for retention beyond the bottom end screens?
So far, I've only tried small areas at the bottom of the walls. I actually forgot to screen one hole and had no problem vacuuming them back out when I noticed them leaking out on the garage floor. I screened the hole and poured them out of the vacuum canister into the wall with no problem. The most difficult hole to screen is the one at the front of the driver/passenger door sills. That area is impossible to insulate, but a source of noise, so I really want to fill those cavities under the step wells under the doors. I only use beads where there is not a good way to fill a cavity. I mentioned the rear side wall tops. You can perhaps stuff those areas, but you can't be guaranteed to fill them unless you blow or pour insulation into them. From insulating houses, I learned that if you don't totally fill a cavity, you haven't insulated well. I've been studying this stuff since 1977, and was told by an energy rater who tested my house, which I built, that I have the most efficient house he's ever measured, and he wasn't new to the business. I'm not bragging. I'm just trying to say I really believe the beads are a good way to insulate, but only where you have a blocked area that you cannot stuff. I used the beads at the wall bottoms because they isolate the Thinsulate from the waxy gew they used for rust prevention without disturbing it. The beads just sit on top of it, but it can still prevent rust. And it won't get wicked up into the Thinsulate.

Yes, I do have to retain the beads. I plan to use good duct tape for small holes and or Thinsulate for large ones, and using window screen on vents and drain holes. It's a work in progress, so I don't have all the answers. On my Promaster City, every few months I'd find a couple of beads on the garage floor. It was funny to my wife and I. No one would ever guess where those beads are coming from. At 10 beads per year, I wasn't worried about cavities emptying. 😉 I will let you know how it goes as the work progresses this winter. I always have more projects than time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Denim is interesting as insulation, but I'd have to retheme Metris as "Das Luv Boot" or some similarly hokey '70s Chevy Van moniker (think Mr. T and the A-Team) to keep the design theme coherent, err, I mean cohesive. But I digress.
Careful, there. My first camper van was a 1980 GMC Vandura, which I ordered in "Tangier Orange." No one ever claimed they didn't see it. I don't remember naming it. My previous van, the Ram Promaster City, we named Patti. It was a "wagon" model because it had rear seats. Let me help you, @river, "Patti Wagon." Now say it after a few beers. 😀
We're still working on the Metris moniker. Any good names out there?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Agreed. One doesn't want to encourage rust, for sure. So, talking about installing Styrofoam beads, I noticed there are good-sized plugs in the door pillars (B-pillar) that might allow me to fill those with beads. I'll have to make sure there aren't any escape holes other than the drain in the frame under the front door, which I have screened. I don't want to blow beads in the pillars and find them filling the glove box. 😅
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Careful, there. My first camper van was a 1980 GMC Vandura, which I ordered in "Tangier Orange." No one ever claimed they didn't see it. I don't remember naming it. My previous van, the Ram Promaster City, we named Patti. It was a "wagon" model because it had rear seats. Let me help you, @river, "Patti Wagon." Now say it after a few beers. 😀
We're still working on the Metris moniker. Any good names out there?
I thought of one, but only if you remember "Average White Band's" music. I could call mine "Average White Van." Clean and simple.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
557 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Anything but Metris, honestly. The name has the benefit of its Latin root suggesting its intended use as an urban street hauler/doer that will fit in a parking garage. But otherwise Metris sounds like a machine-generated pharmaceutical brand, at least to my ear.

I very jokingly call mine "Phantom 135" because it disappeared for many months during my 11-1/2 month ordering trauma, and I love Red Sovine's corny old Phantom 309.

I bought a Vito badge, a name with a far more organic source as in the location of Daimler's first non-German plant, in Vitoria-Gasteiz, Spain. I haven't quite pulled the trigger on shaving Metris and adding Vito, but it's going to happen. I'm also trying to source the companion, engine appropriate "121" logo.
 

Attachments

  • Like
Reactions: river and VanGo

·
Registered
Joined
·
481 Posts
How about temperature? Are you satisfied with the Thinsulate as thermal insulation? Thanks --

I'm asking because it is really tempting to fill up those lower cavities, but 3M labels the Thinsulate product we're using as "acoustic insulation." I'm not expecting much in the way of thermal insulation on the walls, but I'm hoping three layers on the roof is effective.
Yes, there was some thermal performance. I used a cheap temp gun before, but I have a Thermoworks Industrial temp gun now and I'll be testing out the thermals when the weather reaches the extremes here in the Carolinas.
 
  • Like
Reactions: focus805
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top