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I'll apologize when (person, bot, mystical internet spirit that thinks this is a Toyota forum who bought a brand new 2017 in 2018) requests it. Until then I'd like nudes be it man, woman, or just bits and bytes.

Really folks?

Gotta go, just got an email from a Nigerian prince.. which is more believable than mods here. IBTL.
 

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I'll apologize when (person, bot, mystical internet spirit that thinks this is a Toyota forum who bought a brand new 2017 in 2018) requests it. Until then I'd like nudes be it man, woman, or just bits and bytes.

Really folks?

Gotta go, just got an email from a Nigerian prince.. which is more believable than mods here. IBTL.
Only Yiddish jokes fly here!:wink:
 

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Actually, I enjoy almost all kinds of humor, and by making fun of myself and my ethnicity, I have opened up myself to people making fun of me and the stereotypes I so clearly fill. And I have no problem with that. Making fun of such things without me opening myself up to it is a different matter, but I have. I wouldn't make fun of you, Mr. Foley, for any number of stereotypes often associated with the Irish, because while a name like Norman Foley is highly suggestive of such ancestry, you haven't made it clear you are open to it.

However, this particular subject really hits home for me on a very personal level. I had long been just fine with jokes of the "there aren't any females on the internet" persuasion. It was funny, and I think in terms of internet forums, as with all stereotypes, there is a grain of truth to it. But several things made me change m mind on this, and I am not just talking about the Harvey Weinstein phenomena that have changed societies norms on this, I think, thankfully.

For years, I was friends with a woman I met on the internet through another friend. As a friend she was just my type- bonkers. I really liked her a lot, she was one of my closest and dearest friends for years. Because of the nature of human norms, and because I was somewhat attracted to her in a physical sense, (I was with my wife at the time, and all three of us were friends, but...) in addition to sharing a lot of other subjects, I perpetually flirted with her. There was no ill intent, I never intended to demean her in any way, and had she ever sent even a sliver of a hint she objected to it, I would have stopped immediately. Besides a normal-for-a-male attraction to a very attractive woman, our friendship had basically nothing to do with our respective genders.

But because of those same norms, she felt she couldn't object to it- as a woman with a male friend, she felt that she would just have to put up with flirting. Which is something she should never have felt, and I should never have led her to feel. One day, I was drunk, and was being a bit flirty. She wasn't in the mood, because somebody, in physical life, who did not have my good intentions, had pushed such harassment (if nowhere else, it becomes harassment when the intent occurs past the point of a reasonable person perceiving objection) too far. I wasn't pushing my flirtations past this point, but I had been too drunk at the time. As a result I actually did not see her request for me to stop. I was too intent on telling a totally unrelated joke that must have been pretty damned funny to my inebriated mind at the time. (This was on AIM, btw) But I also missed what was essentially a call for reassurance and support from a friend who had always been there for me in the past. (I reconstructed what happened largely from chat logs in the aftermath of it)

All those years of discomfort at my flirtatiousness, all those years of feeling like she had to put up with it, combined with her contemporary hatred of men in the aftermath of the incident, caused her friendship and longstanding trust and feelings of camaraderie with me to come crashing down. She saw me as just another male who has no respect for women, and thinks the main feature of interest in one is what we could do in bed. Which is not me, at all. But what else could she think?

The story she told me should have horrified me. When I actually read it, it did. I didn't miss it because I thought such a thing was ok; I missed it because I was drunk and once I was fixated on something else, I would have missed anything. I don't blame her for her lack of understanding, although I wish she had had more. I don't fully blame myself, because my intentions were good, and I wasn't the person she was perceiving at that moment. I wish I could blame myself for not seeing she was always a little uncomfortable with that part of my relationship, but the signs simply weren't there. I wish I could blame her for not telling me she was uncomfortable, but I can't really do that, either, because she thought she would lose a friend if she spoke out.

And its not just me missing the signs- I asked my wife to read over everything to see if I should have seen more. She was very adamant it wasn't there. I'm sure it would have been more clear in person, but we had never met physically.

I mean, I blame both of us. We are both unusually bright people. We should have been able to perceive each others feelings better. I blame myself for being drunk at the time. I blame myself for not being there for my friend when I needed to be. She really should have trusted me as a decent human better than she did.

But most of all, I blame society, for creating all these misunderstandings to begin with. For creating an environment where a close friend, with the best intentions, could make their friend uncomfortable through actions that seemed perfectly normal. Where that friend felt unable to object to it based entirely on that normality. Where a male could act towards a female with actions that went way beyond (unwanted) playful flirtation, and the most she thought she could do was tell a friend on the internet. What transpired between them should have resulted in an outpouring of support from the world at large, and strident disciplinary action for the aggressor.

So, no, Mr. Foley. Tell all the jokes you want about anything, they don't have to be Yiddish.

But I don't think anyone on here thinks its appropriate to make fun of Jews, and Jew jokes would not be fine, if I didn't open myself up to them; and jokes directed my way haven't been intended to be hurtful, just playful. That's fine- it adds geschmack to life, I flaunt it, it is a distinct part of what makes me, me. You wouldn't appreciate me making Irish jokes about you, I assume, especially if they were demeaning or in hurtful spirit. And this lady didn't even specify she was female, except by having a feminine name, let alone suggest that she was open to jokes about it.

I don't care if this is a bot- I hope for whoever it is sakes they weren't being serious. Its not the response to this precise poster, but the cavalierness with which this kind of joke is being made. And I am not really blaming Robb in particular. I even briefly liked his post, before memories of the above incident flooded into my head and I became disgusted with myself. It is easy to find that funny. But we really shouldn't; Innocent and decent people are being hurt every day by attitudes like this. Feeling trapped, and unable to express themselves. There are women on the internet- and a lot of them make an effort to hide their gender so they can just post on whatever subject without being judged on something that is entirely irrelevant unless you are dating them.

On the other hand, this poster/bot posted a stupid post about an irrelevant car in our forum. They are acting like an idiot, which opens themselves to being called out on their idiocy, or to be ignored as a prospective bot, or simply made fun of.

By the way, I want to publicly apologize to Robb for what must look like me blasting him for his behavior. You're good, your humor is practically always appreciated, and I don't have a problem with you. This just struck a really raw nerve.
 

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Actually, I enjoy almost all kinds of humor, and by making fun of myself and my ethnicity, I have opened up myself to people making fun of me and the stereotypes I so clearly fill. And I have no problem with that. Making fun of such things without me opening myself up to it is a different matter, but I have. I wouldn't make fun of you, Mr. Foley, for any number of stereotypes often associated with the Irish, because while a name like Norman Foley is highly suggestive of such ancestry, you haven't made it clear you are open to it.

However, this particular subject really hits home for me on a very personal level. I had long been just fine with jokes of the "there aren't any females on the internet" persuasion. It was funny, and I think in terms of internet forums, as with all stereotypes, there is a grain of truth to it. But several things made me change m mind on this, and I am not just talking about the Harvey Weinstein phenomena that have changed societies norms on this, I think, thankfully.

For years, I was friends with a woman I met on the internet through another friend. As a friend she was just my type- bonkers. I really liked her a lot, she was one of my closest and dearest friends for years. Because of the nature of human norms, and because I was somewhat attracted to her in a physical sense, (I was with my wife at the time, and all three of us were friends, but...) in addition to sharing a lot of other subjects, I perpetually flirted with her. There was no ill intent, I never intended to demean her in any way, and had she ever sent even a sliver of a hint she objected to it, I would have stopped immediately. Besides a normal-for-a-male attraction to a very attractive woman, our friendship had basically nothing to do with our respective genders.

But because of those same norms, she felt she couldn't object to it- as a woman with a male friend, she felt that she would just have to put up with flirting. Which is something she should never have felt, and I should never have led her to feel. One day, I was drunk, and was being a bit flirty. She wasn't in the mood, because somebody, in physical life, who did not have my good intentions, had pushed such harassment (if nowhere else, it becomes harassment when the intent occurs past the point of a reasonable person perceiving objection) too far. I wasn't pushing my flirtations past this point, but I had been too drunk at the time. As a result I actually did not see her request for me to stop. I was too intent on telling a totally unrelated joke that must have been pretty damned funny to my inebriated mind at the time. (This was on AIM, btw) But I also missed what was essentially a call for reassurance and support from a friend who had always been there for me in the past. (I reconstructed what happened largely from chat logs in the aftermath of it)

All those years of discomfort at my flirtatiousness, all those years of feeling like she had to put up with it, combined with her contemporary hatred of men in the aftermath of the incident, caused her friendship and longstanding trust and feelings of camaraderie with me to come crashing down. She saw me as just another male who has no respect for women, and thinks the main feature of interest in one is what we could do in bed. Which is not me, at all. But what else could she think?

The story she told me should have horrified me. When I actually read it, it did. I didn't miss it because I thought such a thing was ok; I missed it because I was drunk and once I was fixated on something else, I would have missed anything. I don't blame her for her lack of understanding, although I wish she had had more. I don't fully blame myself, because my intentions were good, and I wasn't the person she was perceiving at that moment. I wish I could blame myself for not seeing she was always a little uncomfortable with that part of my relationship, but the signs simply weren't there. I wish I could blame her for not telling me she was uncomfortable, but I can't really do that, either, because she thought she would lose a friend if she spoke out.

And its not just me missing the signs- I asked my wife to read over everything to see if I should have seen more. She was very adamant it wasn't there. I'm sure it would have been more clear in person, but we had never met physically.

I mean, I blame both of us. We are both unusually bright people. We should have been able to perceive each others feelings better. I blame myself for being drunk at the time. I blame myself for not being there for my friend when I needed to be. She really should have trusted me as a decent human better than she did.

But most of all, I blame society, for creating all these misunderstandings to begin with. For creating an environment where a close friend, with the best intentions, could make their friend uncomfortable through actions that seemed perfectly normal. Where that friend felt unable to object to it based entirely on that normality. Where a male could act towards a female with actions that went way beyond (unwanted) playful flirtation, and the most she thought she could do was tell a friend on the internet. What transpired between them should have resulted in an outpouring of support from the world at large, and strident disciplinary action for the aggressor.

So, no, Mr. Foley. Tell all the jokes you want about anything, they don't have to be Yiddish.

But I don't think anyone on here thinks its appropriate to make fun of Jews, and Jew jokes would not be fine, if I didn't open myself up to them; and jokes directed my way haven't been intended to be hurtful, just playful. That's fine- it adds geschmack to life, I flaunt it, it is a distinct part of what makes me, me. You wouldn't appreciate me making Irish jokes about you, I assume, especially if they were demeaning or in hurtful spirit. And this lady didn't even specify she was female, except by having a feminine name, let alone suggest that she was open to jokes about it.

I don't care if this is a bot- I hope for whoever it is sakes they weren't being serious. Its not the response to this precise poster, but the cavalierness with which this kind of joke is being made. And I am not really blaming Robb in particular. I even briefly liked his post, before memories of the above incident flooded into my head and I became disgusted with myself. It is easy to find that funny. But we really shouldn't; Innocent and decent people are being hurt every day by attitudes like this. Feeling trapped, and unable to express themselves. There are women on the internet- and a lot of them make an effort to hide their gender so they can just post on whatever subject without being judged on something that is entirely irrelevant unless you are dating them.

On the other hand, this poster/bot posted a stupid post about an irrelevant car in our forum. They are acting like an idiot, which opens themselves to being called out on their idiocy, or to be ignored as a prospective bot, or simply made fun of.

By the way, I want to publicly apologize to Robb for what must look like me blasting him for his behavior. You're good, your humor is practically always appreciated, and I don't have a problem with you. This just struck a really raw nerve.
I love your Yiddishisms! You and Robb are the only forum members who show much of a sense of humor! I'm part Jewish, but since it came from my Maternal Grandfather.... It's not recognized.
I just thought since the Bot wasn't a real person, Robb wasn't too off base>:D0:) and it was actually a nod to your bigger than life sense of humor! :grin:
 
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