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Fingers crossed it is fixed.

Personally, for a brief while at least, I'd be running some extra errands or making some extra stops to put the fix to the test ...

In terms of other vehicles. I got the Metris Cargo as a space upgrade over a Dodge GC, that extra foot of interior height, extra length and weight capacity really makes a difference. Pickups have their utility, but they suck gas unless you get a small one and I prefer anything I put in a vehicle to be protected from weather and not wander off ... Doing the same with a pickup would require a big truck, long bed and cargo cap. So, the Metris ticks a lot of boxes, for me. And probably most people here :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
Fingers crossed it is fixed.

Personally, for a brief while at least, I'd be running some extra errands or making some extra stops to put the fix to the test ...

In terms of other vehicles. I got the Metris Cargo as a space upgrade over a Dodge GC, that extra foot of interior height, extra length and weight capacity really makes a difference. Pickups have their utility, but they suck gas unless you get a small one and I prefer anything I put in a vehicle to be protected from weather and not wander off ... Doing the same with a pickup would require a big truck, long bed and cargo cap. So, the Metris ticks a lot of boxes, for me. And probably most people here :)
Didn't make myself clear. The problem is not fixed. I got the van back after the tech found loose connection and tightened it. Van was symptom free for 12 days. 'course, I posted that it was fixed, changed the title of the thread too. Probably should consider editing the thread title but the result could be even more confusing. Fixed. Not fixed. This time fixed. Oops sorry not fixed. Fixed maybe... Still fixed.. Rats. Problem back again. And so on...

On the way to the bookstore passed by the dealer and thought about stopping in and letting the SA know all was well. But decided to continue to the bookstore first. And just my luck upon returning to the van after my business in the bookstore was finished -- I was in there about 5 minutes, just long enough to buy a Wall Street Journal -- upon starting the engine the engine died just like before.

Took the van straight back to the M-B dealer and left it. Van was there a week. SA informed me M-B is working on a software fix but the ETA is late October. On the paperwork the ETA is "unknown". While the engine dying is a bother the van otherwise runs just fine. I elected to take the van back and use it while waiting for the M-B to release the software.

I have the 126" cargo van. Pretty spartan but it suits me and my daily driver needs. Easy to maneuver and park. Gets 22/23mpg which may not seem all that good but my other car a 2020 Challenger Scat Pack with the same usage delivers barely 15mpg!

Have not put the van's cargo capacity or load carrying ability to the test and may not ever. Well, it did carry with ease a new recliner in its shipping box. It does have plenty of cargo space and easy access to this space from both the back and side doors. Being a cargo van it has no side glass behind the driver/passenger door glass nor any glass in the rear doors. So the cargo area is not visible from the outside. 'course, I don't leave anything of any value in the van even when parked at my house. But it is nice I can carry pretty much whatever I want out of sight and out of the weather. A pick up truck would be a lousy 2nd choice compared to this van. But if the van engine continues to manifest this dying...
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
Engine died earlier. Made my usual bookstore run to pick up WSJ. Bookstore far enough away and it is warm enough here that the engine gets up to temperature by the time I reach the bookstore. Also as usual the A/C was on. As is most often the case in and out of the bookstore in 5 minutes.

Started the engine and as has been my habit since getting the van back from the dealer while we await the software fix I don't shift to D and drive off right away. Instead I give the engine a bit of throttle -- just raise RPMs to maybe 2K and only briefly -- as some kind of a test to see if the engine is going to run or die.

All the times before today it continued to run and after RPMs fell to normal hot idle RPMs I shifted to D and drove off with no drama. Today the engine died but not abruptly but kind of sputtered to a stop. But not real dramatic in any case.

Turned key off and waited a few moments. Then started engine. Engine fired right up and was fine. 'course, CEL was on. Didn't bother to read the code but assume it is good old P0627. Drove off and made it home with no issues.

Think I will read the code and capture freeze frame data to see if I can spot something in the data. I will clear the code and every time this happens the CEL comes back on I'll read the data and compare it to the previous times. Looking for some pattern...

Really the symptom is as best I can tell random. FWIW and probably nothing I will note the fuel tank is quite full. But not over filled. I only fill it until the nozzle shuts off flow. I don't "top up" the tank. At the time the engine died I had put less than 10 miles on the van since filling the fuel tank -- at my usual gas station -- with 91 ethanol free gasoline. Will pay closer attention and see if the dying might be related to fuel tank level.
 

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One positive thing about ethanol added fuel is that it can help keep water out of the fuel.

If other vans are having the issue and mb is saying it's a software issue I'd maybe give up making sense of it. If they were giving you a line to get the van out of the shop then... take it back until you hit your 30 days and then you can at least decide if you want to tap out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
Have you tried a different gas station?
With very few exceptions I fill up at the Littlefield station and with ethanol free 91.

I have used this station almost 100% of the time with first my Hellcat, then my van, and now with my Scat Pack. Neither the Hellcat or the Scat Pack have manifested any signs of any trouble.

Also, the van went 5K miles with no issues then when I brought the van in for a 5K mile oil change -- this prior to driving it to CA and back -- when the SA went to the van to record the mileage he noticed the CEL on. Wasn't on when I was driving to the dealer. At any rate the problem proved to be a bad low pressure fuel pump which was replaced.

Drove the van to CA and back no problems. 'course except for the fill up just before I left I used 91 with ethanol -- various name brand stations too -- all the way to CA and back. Engine did not die one time on the trip.

But I understand your point...

Since I am waiting for the software from M-B and using the van I can from now until it arrives use a different gas station. There is a Casey's station just a few blocks west of me and going east about a 1/2 a mile after I pass the Littlefield station I then pass another Casey's. IIRC neither station carries ethanol free 91. Thus it would not be any real inconvenience to use Casey's for my gasoline needs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
One positive thing about ethanol added fuel is that it can help keep water out of the fuel.

If other vans are having the issue and mb is saying it's a software issue I'd maybe give up making sense of it. If they were giving you a line to get the van out of the shop then... take it back until you hit your 30 days and then you can at least decide if you want to tap out.
Got no line to motivate me to take the van back. I had initially decided to let it sit at the dealer but it would have sat 2 months -- assuming the software arrived at the end of October -- which might have had the battery (or batteries) run down. Also, by not having the van I was having to drive my Scat Pack and while I like this car it is not as handy/convenient to use as the van. Also with fall coming on and weather getting wetter (and soon colder) and with Scat Pack on high performance tires I don't look forward to having to drive the Scat Pack until the van is fixed.

Since -- so far -- the van engine only dies right after hot engine start and restarts with no drama I decided to resume using the van.

I have not tallied up the days but the van is pretty close to qualifying for a lemon if it doesn't already qualify.
 

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Discussion Starter · #69 ·
Used a scan tool to query for the error code associated with the CEL and to capture the freeze frame data.

Just one error code: P0627.

Freeze Frame data:
RPM: 0 (kind of surprised this is 0)
Calc Load: 0.0% (makes sense if RPMs are 0)
Coolant Temperature: 189F (a bit lower than I would have thought)
Speed: 0 (makes sense if RPMs is 0 and load is 0)
Acc Pos D: 5.1% (Accelerator Pedal Position represents normalized distance the gas pedal is pressed.)
Fuel level: 99.2%
VPWR: 12.589V (Control Module Voltage is the power input to the control module.)

Nothing really jumps out at me.

Oh, I tried to clear the error code and was unsuccessful. Have used this scan tool (Auto X Ray) before with other vehicles and it worked fine. Tried several times with the van though and no luck.

So I used the van with the CEL on. Then the next day I went to use the van and noticed the CEL was off. IIRC someone posted the CEL goes away after 24 hours. While this looks to be the case AFAIK the engine controller has no concept of time beyond engine run time. I could be wrong but I believe rather than noting 24 hours passed the CEL was cleared because of at least one or possibly 2 or maybe (just maybe) 3 engine warm up cycles occurred with the error condition not present.

I have been data logging the van but I can't find the USB cable I need to download the data from the logging device. I want to look at the data to for instance note the freeze frame data that was recorded other times the error occurred.

Will be going out soon and I'll stop by and pick up a USB cable so I can download the data from the logging device.
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 ·
Update: No real change in behavior. Engine dying is really random. I have tried revving the engine a bit before shutting it off or upon starting revving the engine a bit before selecting D. Engine doesn't die or dies with no apparent connection to what I do behind the wheel.

The CEL appears to go out after 3 warm up cycles. Was a bit hard to determine this as I'm not sure what exactly is a warm up cycle. But the other day I used the van 3 different times starting from a cold or nearly cold engine and the CEL went off shortly after the 3rd cold start.

I have checked error codes after some instances of the engine dying. I see P0627, P0088 and the other day a new one P053F.

The first two I think are "stale" codes or maybe permanent codes. I retrieve the freeze frame data but the freeze frame does not really fit the circumstances, with the fuel level percentage being the most obvious metric being "wrong". There are other codes but associated with modules I can't access with my generic OBD2 scan tool.

Other than the random hot start engine dying no other untoward behavior. But still what a real annoyance to have to deal with this random hot start engine dying. I hope the software fix arrives soon and solves this once and for all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #71 ·
FWIW, there is at least two different error codes of different severity. Can't get all error codes, my generic OBD2 scan tool doesn't speak "Mercedes-Benz" just CAN...

But yesterday the engine died. Started back up and the CEL was on. Finished my errands and went home. CEL was on when I parked the van. Hours later started the engine and the CEL was dark.
 

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Discussion Starter · #72 ·
It got worse. Cold started engine yesterday. Backed van out of parking space and drove it 10mph a few hundred feet to dump trash in apartment complex dumpster. Parked next to dumpster with engine idling while I took out the trash so to speak. Got back in the van and took off and was a few hundred feet away from the dumpster -- still driving around 10mph -- and made a 90 degree right turn and engine stumbled then died. First time it had stalled after a cold start.

Put transmission in P and turned key off then on again. Engine spun over ok but didn't fire right up. Shut off key. Waited a few counts then tried again. Engine fired up. But I didn't trust the engine to not die again and on the road. I turned on the flashers and backed up 50 feet or so until I could turn around and took the van back and parked it and got my other car.

Drove to the dealer. My SA was busy with a customer but another SA asked me what's up and I told him. He suggested arrange with Mercedes RoadSide assistence to get the van to the dealer.

Long story short I did this.

So van is back in the "shop".

This behavior doesn't "feel" like a software problem to me but a hardware problem. But not sure the tech will be able to start at the beginning again and check the low pressure fuel pump, re-check the connection that was loose before, etc, unless upon obtaining all the error codes/freeze frame data he "sees" something that provides him with the justification to proceed.

If not the tech may have to wait for M-B to produce the software apply this and then test. Only if the behavior is still present then maybe the tech would receive permission from M-B to start his investigation into what is going on from the beginning.

The initial problem appeared around mid April of this year. It is now 5.5 months later and still no resolution. The Metris has gone from Hero to Zero in my opinion. Only a once and for all fix will bring it from Zero to Hero again but this won't happen overnight. It will take time, considerable time with no untoward behavior at all, for me to upgrade its status.
 

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Needing another vehicle as backup, because your new MB can't be trusted, this many weeks in the shop again ... yeah, no!

It is OK to be patient, but in this scenario I would be getting all documentation in a row and start to get the wheels in motion to get a new one. MB should take this one back and give you a new one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
From what I gather time the vehicle awaits some part or in this case software doesn't count towards qualifying the vehicle to be deemed a lemon. But the vehicle is I think getting close to being a lemon without this.

I really like the van, when it works right. I think I'll see how things turn out after this time.

The SA said the factory wanted to offer me some goodwill to help make amends for the trouble I'm having it wanted to make a loan/lease payment. Trouble is I bought the van for "cash".

If when I get the van back and if it manifests this behavior again I think I'll suggest if the factory really wants to make amends it can take the van back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
Messages SA for a status of my van. Got a reply back this AM that M-B might have released a software update for the Metris van. If so this will be obtained and applied I'll be informed as to the outcome/result.

Fingers crossed the update is available and does the trick and cures the engine dying problem. I really miss that van!
 

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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
Update! Got the van back. (If anyone still cares... sigh.)

From the paperwork:

PERFORMED CONNECT/DISCONNECT OF SDS. PERFORMED CONNECT AND DISCONNECT OF BATTERY CHARGER. FOUND DTC P062700 [sic], SO PERFORMED GUIDED TEST. PERFORMED POWER CONSUMPTION OF M3/6 OK. FOUND ACTUAL VALUE AT 0.8A out of 0.2 - 16.0. PER LI47.00-N-069277 TO PERFORM FUEL PUMP SYSTEM CONTROL UNIT SOFTWARE UPDATE. PERFORMED AOD TEST OK. MILEAGE IN - 13384 / MILEAGE OUT 13386.

Have to note there was apparently no hot engine start test which is when the van manifested the engine dying behavior frequently. The exception was the last time when the engine died shortly after a cold start.

But the van was delivered the other day, after a ~6 mile drive from the dealer to my place, and after I put my other car away and returned to the van I started the van engine hot and no problems. I have used the van several times since -- with cold and hot starts involved -- and no problems.

All I can do is resume using the van and hoping the engine behaves.
 

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Discussion Starter · #79 ·
So there was a software update?
Yep. New software showed up earlier than I was led to believe it would. SA told me -- this early in September -- M-B believed it would have new software by end of October, but the SA indicated this ETA was "iffy". On the paperwork the tech had the new software ETA listed as "unknown".

When I had the van flat bedded back to the dealer oh about a week or so ago I braced myself to be van-less through October and into November but hopefully not into December.

So I'm rather pleased the software became available before the end of October.

Now all I have to worry about is that it proves to resolve the problem and I can once again depend upon the van as my daily driver.

It sure is sweet to have the van back. Missed it.
 
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