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That looks fantastic- excellent planning and execution! Simple, strong and flexible since it should be pretty easy to remove.

Perhaps push button quick release pins through the wood, the frame and the L bracket? With a bit of 1/8" insulating foam from a big box store between the frame and the La bracket you wouldn't have any vibration if you get the correct pin length.

Or maybe even something like this. But you might not have enough length to work with on the L bracket.

 
Uhmw is a type of plastic that is slippery. Used when you want to slide something. Wood on wood drawer slides can have uhmw tape applied to make them slide effortlessly. Use it for tool guides and skids. Used as bushings. Great stuff.
 
Discussion starter · #44 ·
If you took a piece of flat stock the length of your rail and bolted it to your l track you could put your beams anywhere along the length. Beam would lip over the edge.
Great idea. I just took a quick look on Amazon -- looks like it would make nice slippery (quiet) "locking feet" if applied to the L brackets -- serves two purposes -- sound deadener and edge for the rail to latch over.

Will uhmw bond to itself so that I could layer tape up to the required height?
 
Discussion starter · #45 · (Edited)
That looks fantastic- excellent planning and execution! Simple, strong and flexible since it should be pretty easy to remove.

Perhaps push button quick release pins through the wood, the frame and the L bracket? With a bit of 1/8" insulating foam from a big box store between the frame and the La bracket you wouldn't have any vibration if you get the correct pin length.

Or maybe even something like this. But you might not have enough length to work with on the L bracket.

Those push button pins look great!

In the category of "where DO they get those names?", I think I like the GANGMU TEC's over the Woopeey's!!! Then again the ANJOSHI's are well monikered too. :)
 
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Discussion starter · #46 ·
OK, looks like Peachtree 1122 UHMW 1/4" x 4" x 48" for 18 Amazo-bucks could work. I'd have to use fasteners I could countersink below the UHMW surface level, but the UHMW could extend wider than the L bracket for a snug fit.

Keep those great ideas coming!!
 
So far I like the flat stock approach. You can extend it past the l track a bit. It's low profile when the beams are off. You can leave the beams on and slide them to one end to make space. You can use more beams or less beams and not worry about position...

Down side is you lose l track usage while it's up.
 
Discussion starter · #49 · (Edited)
So far I like the flat stock approach. You can extend it past the l track a bit. It's low profile when the beams are off. You can leave the beams on and slide them to one end to make space. You can use more beams or less beams and not worry about position...

Down side is you lose l track usage while it's up.
Thanks as ever -- excellent advice.

I hear you about the adjustability of a continuous rail (there are a few "Metod" rail videos on YouTube, but that part is not available from Ikea any longer. If I used a 44 to 48" piece of 90 degree angle stock, I could get where you are going. I'm more inclined to cut mounts for each stud, rather than add a permanent rail. OTOH, I think a 48" rail would fit and allow me to extend the width of the platform from 44-ish inches to 48" so I could get more support towards the rear of the van and get closer to the C-pillar. Less work cutting angle stock too.

Of course, a mash-up of the two approaches might be possible, though I am not sure with aluminum. Basically, I'd use cut to fit aluminum tabs on each of the 3 interior L-track stud/L-bracket combos, and use, say, 6 to 12 inch "mini" rails at the rearmost and front most studs for adjustability. I'll need to measure clearance to see if I can go 48."

I would still use the UHMW stock to build up a pad on the lower leg of the angle stock. As for holes in the Skorva's, I could get away with very small holes (3mm-ish) for the retainer pins, rather than 9mm holes for unnecessary M8 bolts (though I hate not to use those Torx button heads!
 
Discussion starter · #50 · (Edited)
OK, here are a few pix from v2.0 of the platform build. pounce, I couldn't resist using those buttonheads. I am going to drill holes in the plywood so it lies flat. The buttonheads are not yet secure. I have some knobs and split washers on order for manual disassembly, not sure whether they will fit. Back up plan is to use washers and nylocs.

For rattle control, I ordered 1/8" neoprene to sandwich between the L bracket and the Skorva. We'll see whether the sliding portion of the Skorva needs to be rattle proofed after the platform is installed.

Also, the L brackets have different leg lengths -- 1.5" and 2". The first time bolted the L track studs to the 2" leg so it would be vertical and drop as low as possible. This time I swapped and bolted onto the 1.5" leg. This gives 1/2" of extra support on the rail. Also, the rail edge hangs over the bracket. The net effect is the Skorva(s) I add to the driver's side between the B and C pillar will easily clear my power box. Basically, I push the width of the rail closer to the ceiling. I threw some ply on and climbed aboard with the Hest. I fit and can do my usual tossing and turning!

Last, I think Velcro remains a very viable option for attaching the platform top plywood. As I've thought about the leg extension, it will be easy to have two removable Skorvas attach to the rail. But I am trying to figure out a few things. First, I'll need folding legs for the passenger side of the Skorvas, and they'll need to have a wide base (a "T" shape?) and a locking diagonal support to prevent buckling under heavy activity (kids and spouses). And they've got to be flat stowable. Second, as to the platform covering, using a 4x8 sheet of ply side to side would cover the ~60" width, but wouldn't get to the back few inches where I want the platform to overhang the rear most rail. Probably the smart money would be to have the front leg section of play overlap the front most rear platform Skorva with some kind of hinge so it can fold back on top of the platform when driving. It's clear enough that I could just use the Skorva's and yet more heavy L brackets as a base for 500# drawer slides as well, which would avoid the C pillar problem RansomRidge discussed, but leave me with two different height platforms. So it may be best, albeit expensive, to make two side my side fore to aft ply panels with separately hinged leg and foot sections that would drop down onto the B/C pillar Skorvas and lock with threaded knobs. This would make a 4-5" overhang behind the rearmost Skorva usable space. I'd cut square right at the angle in the rear side wall. to leave room for accessing the lower light switch and USB's.

This is a long way of saying I'd love to hear ideas for the leg and foot section. My only requirement is that it be stowable and use the B/C pillar factory cargo rail. Thank you!!!

Today's version:

Vehicle Car Hood Motor vehicle Trunk


Hood Motor vehicle Car Vehicle Trunk


Hood Motor vehicle Bumper Vehicle Automotive exterior



Thursday's version

Hood Automotive exterior Bumper Automotive design Engineering


Motor vehicle Automotive lighting Automotive tire Hood Automotive design
 
Discussion starter · #51 ·
Hi again: Would someone who has the factory cargo rail behind the driver's seat please measure it for me? I am trying to cut it precisely. It's a bit of a minor Rubik's cube problem to figure out where to make the cut(s).

Thanks in advance.
 
Discussion starter · #52 ·
Alright, just to finish the photo sequence. Before finally mounting the Ikea Skorva rails, I added some 1/8" neoprene pads for rattle-proofing and as a thermal barrier. The pix show the leftover 16mm M8 Torx buttonheads which are just a bit short to fully reach the nyloc. I have more M8 Buttonhead flanged Torx coming in 25mm.

Here's the neoprene I used.

Rectangle Font Packing materials Packaging and labeling Plant


And here are a few different angles of the pads after installation.

Hood Motor vehicle Automotive tire Automotive lighting Grille


Hood Motor vehicle Automotive exterior Grille Gas


Gas Automotive exterior Wood Jewellery Bumper


The neoprene also forgives the surface a bit. I wound up loosening all of the L track studs after the rails were tightened down, then used a straightedge to make sure all 5 were dead level before tightening. As I suspected, the M8 knobs would not fit due to the L track studs, but they will be useful for the removable foot section.

I'll do a separate build post on the foot section once the parts come in. I'm looking at roughly a 26" foot section with 2 Ikea Skorvas mounted to the driver side B/C pillar L track using the same 250# heavy duty L brackets shown immediately above. For the passenger side, I'll be using two Ikea 116791 mounting plates attached to . . . something that will rest in the passenger slider entry. IDEAS WELCOME!!!

Here are the Ikea plates:

Rectangle Auto part Gas Automotive exterior Composite material
 
I got the rails today. To my surprise and delight, the heavy duty 1800# US Cargo double lug 3/8" fittings work great. To my surprise and relief, the cheapo 1000# M8 "Bonberland" double lugs do not fit. I'll send install pics later.

icerabbit, after looking at it, I do prefer the flanged buttonhead M8 16 fasteners over the unflanged versions. It just feels like more grip. Did you use blue Loctite or Permatex? I am planning to, unless someone tells me it's a bad idea. The manual WIS/ASRA says they take 23Nm torque.

Thanks in advance
I wish the forum had pinged me and it had shown up as an updated topic. I guess it was missing the @ symbol ... Anyhow.

Great progress!!

I guess with the upper position on the L braces, once you get a tick of extra garage space below; and once something for sleeping platform over the top gets pinned down and stabilizes them over the top, none of them will be tempted to rotate left or right.

No, I did not use any adhesive on the bolts. Just snugged them up decently. Afaik nothing has rattled loose. Of course not too many mines and no washboards.

Would you like some 3D printed end caps for the MB rails?

Mine go in with a small screw, into the wood, but I'm guessing you could put a dap of glue and double sided tape. Can remove the screw hole for aesthetics.
 
Discussion starter · #54 ·
I wish the forum had pinged me and it had shown up as an updated topic. I guess it was missing the @ symbol ... Anyhow.

Great progress!!

I guess with the upper position on the L braces, once you get a tick of extra garage space below; and once something for sleeping platform over the top gets pinned down and stabilizes them over the top, none of them will be tempted to rotate left or right.

No, I did not use any adhesive on the bolts. Just snugged them up decently. Afaik nothing has rattled loose. Of course not too many mines and no washboards.

Would you like some 3D printed end caps for the MB rails?

Mine go in with a small screw, into the wood, but I'm guessing you could put a dap of glue and double sided tape. Can remove the screw hole for aesthetics.
Wow, what an offer!! -- I'd love to have end caps for the factory rails -- please PM me details/cost.

Sorry I forgot the @icerabbit tag. I've been wondering how much to torque the rail double lug bolts precisely because of the rotation (although they are nylocs), but you're dead on that the top platform will prevent rotation. I am settling on about 25 - 30 ft-lb.

I am getting pretty far along on the design for the foot piece. The driver side is easy -- just more L brackets with double lug studs on the cargo rails with the 2 additional Skorvas fastened with M8 through-knobs for removability and stowage, using flanged Torx button heads inserted from the bottom:

Plant Automotive tire White Light Black


The passenger side is trickier. I know I want the foot piece platform to jog around the C pillar (both pass and driver) and overlap the last rear Skorva rail (closest to C pillar). That will help greatly with overall "rigidity" and avoid a sag point in the platform. I am using actual Ikea 116791 brackets on the passenger side because they fix the Skorvas in place and will reduce any potential side-to-side movement. I am looking at two 2" x 2" x 1/4" aluminum tubes as "legs," connected by more aluminum tube at the top onto which the Ikea 116791 brackets will be fastened. I'd like to X-brace the legs, but it may be easier to just make a rectangle with another aluminum rail on the bottom. I think I need an angled lateral brace (pass to driver) as well. I am also thinking this may be the time to finally make the plunge on 80/20 for ease of assembly. I am not looking forward to chop or jig sawing and drilling a bunch of aluminum pieces.

Ideas welcome!!!
 
80/20 ... one day I will go down that route, for something!

I have some similar knobs, but with threaded mechanical bolts already in them, which I was going to use with some threaded inserts somewhere; to fasten down some extra thing over the boxes.
 
Discussion starter · #56 ·
As to torque, not much that's helpful. I can figure out how much torque for a 3/8" fine thread, but not for the factory rail compression fit. I guess it will remain one of life's great mysteries. . .


Hi Customer,
A question you left on the product L-Track Double Lug Threaded Stud Fitting was just answered!

Your question: What is the torque spec for tightening the fastener?

Answer: We have test data to establish break strength and working load limits in general tie down applications. We do not currently list a torque spec for this item.

We hope this was the information you were looking for! If not, feel free to check out our FAQ, Glossary, or Shipping & Returns policies.
You can also call to speak with one of our product experts at 866-444-9990. Our team is available Monday-Friday 7:00am-5:00pm CT and is happy to answer questions, provide quotes, and assist with placing an order.
Thank you for choosing US Cargo Control!
 
Now that's a real non answer, especially the second part. You have to wonder if they're using artificial non-intelligence to come up with that response. Or maybe someone that worked as a politician- you know, authentic non-intelligence.....

I hope this cynical non-information is the answer you were not hoping for. :D
 
Discussion starter · #58 ·
Now that's a real non answer, especially the second part. You have to wonder if they're using artificial non-intelligence to come up with that response. Or maybe someone that worked as a politician- you know, authentic non-intelligence.....

I hope this cynical non-information is the answer you were not hoping for. :D
It's really kind of bizarre that a company that holds itself out as selling quality trucking tie downs would be so evasive. I guess it would be pretty hard to crush the L track with too much compression, but I don't want to find out the hard way, especially given the difficulty in getting the factory L tracks. BTW, I tried to torque to 25 ft-lb today and got nowhere close before I felt like I was going to break or strip the stud. It was a 1/2" drive clicker Craftsman-when-they-were-half-decent torque wrench, and access was not easy. I may try again at 20 with the 3/8" Icon just to see if I can get a click.
 
I agree, it is a very surprisingly poor answer for a company whose primary customers are shipping businesses. Presumably they have specified what grade of steel is being used in their fittings- probably Grade 5???

This chart shows 26 inch pounds for 3/8-24 Grade 5 bolts. If you have a spare and a decent torque wrench you could do your own destructive testing....

https://www.fastenal.com/content/feds/pdf/Torque-Tension Chart for A307 Gr5 Gr8 Gr9.pdf

If you have a spare and a decent torque wrench you could do your own destructive testing.... Or call and try to talk to a real human that might know something.
 
Discussion starter · #60 ·
I agree, it is very surprisingly poor answer for a company whose primary customers are shipping businesses. Presumably they have specified what grade of steel is being used in their fittings- probably Grade 5???

This charge shows 26 inch pounds for 3/8-24 Grade 5 bolts. If you have a spare and a decent torque wrench you could do your own destructive testing....

https://www.fastenal.com/content/feds/pdf/Torque-Tension Chart for A307 Gr5 Gr8 Gr9.pdf

If you have a spare and a decent torque wrench you could do your own destructive testing.... Or call and try to talk to a real human that might know something.
That can't be right. Isn't that only a couple of foot pounds?
 
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