[usa1169]

Anyone know if we can permanently turn off the eco start/stop feature so that it does not reset every time you drive?

It appears from other forums that this feature has to reset for MB to get credit from the EPA and it is not something we can change which is why I am looking for a workaround. I find it highly annoying, especially when running AC.

In other MB forums someone mentioned that the eco start/stop feature does not use the starter motor.... supposedly the system senses which cylinder is charged and in the proper position then it hits that plug with a spark to start the engine. If that is the case then I am less annoyed at MB for forcing me to wear out the starter motor. Does anyone know how the Metris systems works and if it will cause excessive wear on any parts?

I know that a series of common sense conditions have to be met for the system to engage.... but I also saw a note that the eco start/stop engagement can be controlled by the amount of pressure on the brake pedal. Is this true for the Metris?

Thanks for any clarity about all of these questions.

 

[GardenerBob1]

I have never had a vehicle with Eco-Start until now. I have to say it works rather well. Perhaps my biggest discomfort is that the AC compressor cuts out during long stoplights- and then I get a bit hot. Other than that, if it gets me better mileage, I leave it on.
Besides, all you have to do is push the button on the center console to disable it for the remainder of the ride.
B

 

[usa1169]

Yes, it does work well. I would be happier to leave it in that mode if I knew that it was not burning through my starter motor's useful life.

 

[GardenerBob1]

I wouldn't worry about that until it breaks.
I also don't think the starter motor is involved with Eco-start.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
B

 

[mb513]

If one can get used to a car that stutters from every startup, one can tolerate this pointless technology. For my part, I take the car in for service if it does that. I sure would not want to pay to have it.

 

[Road_Ghost]

I wouldn't worry about that until it breaks.
I also don't think the starter motor is involved with Eco-start.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
B

There is another thread where I provide a video discussing the good and bad of S/S Tech.

http://www.metrisforum.com/forum/209-purchasing-ordering/4970-eco-start-stop-worth.html

 

[ckrame1]

I wouldn't worry about that until it breaks.
I also don't think the starter motor is involved with Eco-start.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
B

The starter is absolutely involved in stop and start for eco-stop and start I've got 45,000 miles on mine and had zero problems with the starter it is a slight annoyance when it's hot out and the air-conditioner compressor shuts down however I've gotten so used to it I never turn it off anymore. Besides you can just lighten up on the pressure on the gas pedal and the van will restart

 

[usa1169]

It seems that you are correct, the starter is involved. I found this on the Daimler site:

"How the ECO start/stop system works in detail: as a general principle, the engine is switched off every time the vehicle comes to a standstill (auto-stop function. Restarting the engine (auto-starting function) takes place almost imperceptibly; and moving off without any noticeable time lag compared to a stationary vehicle with its engine running. This rapid action is attributable to two special features: a crankshaft Hall sensor which is able to identify the rotational direction of the crankshaft enables the engine control unit to identify the cylinder in which the piston is ideally positioned for starting. The fuel is injected into this cylinder first, thereby speeding up the starting process. An additional electric transmission oil pump supplies the clutches of the automatic transmission with oil pressure prior to starting, so as to enable a swift resumption of the journey after direct starting of the combustion engine via the ECO start/stop function. The starter motor (starter) has also undergone thorough modification: it is now designed to cope with eight times as many starting procedures, ensuring that it will last a car's lifetime in continuous urban driving involving frequent auto-starting. In addition, the on-board electrical system is supported by a second battery."

Even though they say the starter has been modified to cope with eight times as many starts as normal I am still skeptical. It will be interesting to get the real world verdict on that after more miles are put onto these systems. I can't shake the feeling that I am beta testing the system.

 

[mb513]

OK, so it does nada when the car is moving except for adding cost to the vehicle. Inching forward in traffic it does not help because it restarts with each foot of movement. In hot weather it is a menace because the a/c compressor does not run whilst stopped. There is no actual data from MB or the US EPA as to savings.

And, what is it again we are the agents of saving for? Oh, yes, gasoline, which, because of the need for diesel fuel, of which gasoline is a byproduct, we already have way too much of. And, at 10k miles per year of traffic, (copious highway miles save nada) since we are buying only about $750 of gas, even a 10% savings, which no one claims, boils down to $75 per year. So, the world of the possible is going to be $75/year. Probably less. And, that is if everything goes as planned. I think there is a different motive for this contraption and it is not actually technology related. It is EPA compliance related. And, we get to pay for the privilege of helping MB sell more high powered cars.

 

[RobbMeeX]

Have any of you had to replace a starter on an eco start stop car? I haven't...(neither has the tech next to me)
Edit: he also said its mostly fuel that restarts the engine.

 

[boz]

Have any of you had to replace a starter on an eco start stop car? I haven't...(neither has the tech next to me)
Edit: he also said its mostly fuel that restarts the engine.

At first I thought about starter motor wear and tear. Then I got to thinking about the last time I had to have a starter motor changed in a vehicle. Been quite a long time. Probably over 40 years. Electric motors are pretty durable and last a long time if not subjected to overcurrent. Gone are the days pumping the gas pedal, flooding the carburetor then grinding your starter until the battery dies.

For some reason in the Metris you can somewhat control the system with brake pedal pressure. Found it odd that I could not duplicate the same on the C300 loaner car I drove while getting my front end issues dealt with. Odd because both vehicles share many parts and seem very similar operation wise. I'm sure there is some reason for it.

If I'm wrong, I hope it fails within the ELW.

 

[MOWO]

Have any of you had to replace a starter on an eco start stop car? I haven't...(neither has the tech next to me)
Edit: he also said its mostly fuel that restarts the engine.

Thread killer. Thank you.

 

[usa1169]

I have a couple of hundred miles on my new Metris... so no starter replacement for a long time I hope. And yes, I agree it is mostly fuel that re-starts the car. But unless MB has figured a new way to do it, every time that starter motor is turned on some sort of a Bendix gear is throwing out and engaging the flywheel. That is what I am not happy about. Cycling the starter motor fifty times a day and engaging that gear seems like the perfect way to wear out all of those parts.

So if I can permanently disable the eco start/stop and have their new and improved beefier starter motor last well past the life of the engine I would be thrilled.

 

[usa1169]

How many Metris are out there with 75K or 100K on them? Once you get the fleet age up and there are no starter motors replaced then kill the thread.

 

[boz]

How many Metris are out there with 75K or 100K on them? Once you get the fleet age up and there are no starter motors replaced then kill the thread.

Probably not many. But there are plenty of MB vehicles with the system that have been on the road for 6+ years, with many more miles than mentioned above. Of course we don't know if these folks used the system. But, if a MB service technician says he has not had to replace a starter in a vehicle with the eco start/stop system. I assume he was not talking about his personal vehicle, then that carries quite a bit of weight with me.

I was skeptical at first and was determined to shut off the feature every time I drove the van. Now I can't remember the last time I shut the system off. I'm 11 months and 15,000 miles in FWIW.

 

[Sadragna]

I'm waiting for @Greenmanedlion to charm in. :grin:

 

[Greenmanedlion]

I haven't replaced my starter motor yet. Turned 60k yesterday. Actually come to think of it I have never replaced a starter in any car, even one that had over 700k miles on it.

 

[RobbMeeX]

Thread killer. Thank you.

They'd have to actually read the thread to kill it.

... then kill the thread.

F**k it, i'll just post the price of the starter and let folks figure it out.

@boz - Different programming. That C class also had brake hold, which we don't have. I'd like to know if the V class has it. I'm sure it does.

 

[RobbMeeX]

A2749062100 - That's the part number. Its on the following: 205(c), 213(e), 218(cls),238(e), 253(glc, I think), 447(That's us), 172(slk)
It lists for $923. So roughly (rough estimate) 300k and maybe 15 years down the road, you might have to spend that. Bring it to the dealer and we'll throw on 3hr(est) at current labor rate of $155 (prolly will rise after a few years. Call for an updated quote) You can get one off ebay from the UK for 135 scheckels or whatever they use now that they have brexited.

 

[usa1169]

"But there are plenty of MB vehicles with the system that have been on the road for 6+ years, with many more miles than mentioned above. Of course we don't know if these folks used the system. But, if a MB service technician says he has not had to replace a starter in a vehicle with the eco start/stop system. I assume he was not talking about his personal vehicle, then that carries quite a bit of weight with me."

Excellent point, I failed to notice that this was for the entire MB fleet. So I will shut up and stop worrying about it until the MB techs that see a lot more than we ever will have an issue with it. Thank you everyone.