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Discussion Starter #1
Will there be an all wheel drive model in the future. I have my van equipped with snow tires in my opinion it helps out well all so when we get snow there is about 500+ lbs sitting in the cargo area but I still have to be careful where I park the van bc it will get stuck.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Based on the sales numbers, I’m not entirely sure the Metris will get a second generation, let alone AWD.

But sure, anything is possible.
What do you mean it won’t get a second generation? You think they will stop production in the future for the metris?
 

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Not production, importation.

When MB set out it’s plans on the Metris it was with a 50/50 split pax to cargo- its more like 15/85. They are practically giving the things away- you can walk out the door with a new Metris for well under $25k for a Cargo or $27k for a passenger. And the sales projection was 15k to 25k a year- they moved just under 6k I’m 2016, and 7.5k last year. You be the judge of them wanting to engineer and federalize a AWD system for gas versions that likely won’t sell very much-

If that AWD system cost the $6200 they charge for it in Europe, how many would actually check the box?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Not production, importation.

When MB set out it’s plans on the Metris it was with a 50/50 split pax to cargo- its more like 15/85. They are practically giving the things away- you can walk out the door with a new Metris for well under $25k for a Cargo or $27k for a passenger. And the sales projection was 15k to 25k a year- they moved just under 6k I’m 2016, and 7.5k last year. You be the judge of them wanting to engineer and federalize a AWD system for gas versions that likely won’t sell very much-

If that AWD system cost the $6200 they charge for it in Europe, how many would actually check the box?
Is there anywhere I can take my van To make it awd?
 

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Is there anywhere I can take my van To make it awd?
Uh, sell it, go to Europe and buy a Vito? I'm not a mechanic, so maybe I'm way off, but a conversion of that scale seems either impossible or would cost several times the value of the van.
 

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Not production, importation.

When MB set out it’s plans on the Metris it was with a 50/50 split pax to cargo- its more like 15/85. They are practically giving the things away- you can walk out the door with a new Metris for well under $25k for a Cargo or $27k for a passenger. And the sales projection was 15k to 25k a year- they moved just under 6k I’m 2016, and 7.5k last year. You be the judge of them wanting to engineer and federalize a AWD system for gas versions that likely won’t sell very much-

If that AWD system cost the $6200 they charge for it in Europe, how many would actually check the box?
I'm not going to argue on sales numbers, as I don't really know them. I did shop Metris Cargo vans from about 20 dealers in the Northeast, Mid Atlantic and into the Midwest and no one was discounting Metris Cargo vans at those prices. I got serious sales proposals to consider and entered negotiation with a third. My local dealer offered the best discounts with out seeing the other offers.

Metris 4x4 in US.... Sprinter 4x4 option is $7500 and people are buying them. I have a friend who is super in love with his and several dirt bike buddies who feel the same. Good friend and dirt bike rider, just bought a Metris and would have gladly bought a 4x4 if available. If you live in a rural, snowy climate and take your van somewhat off road like we do... 4x4 is priceless. I think there would be a comparable market for a Metris 4x4, as the Sprinter 4x4.

EPA/Carb certification of Metris 4x4.... Looking at the Sprinter 4x4 in the US, it's sold a 3.0L V6/5spd auto. This drive train is longtime US only and what was certified in 4x2. The rest of the world gets a 3.0L V6/7spd, that isn't certified in the US. I'm thinking by this example it wouldn't be too hard to get a US Metris 4x4, with the existing 2.0 gas/7spd drive train US certified.

Vito Commercial van in Europe, is available as FWD, RWD and 4x4.
 

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Is there anywhere I can take my van To make it awd?
I doubt anyone does a conversion, but to give you an idea of cost.... A Ford Transit converted by Quigley, is $12,000 extra using all Ford OEM parts.

Having owned and driven a bunch of RWD, especially Volvo 140 and 240 Series Wagons.... 4 studded tire will transform winter driving in the Metris. My van won't arrive until February, but I already ordered the extra set of wheels off Ebay and they are getting a set of Nokian Hakkapeliitta 8 studded tires. I've tried all sorts of studless winter tires and this is still the best option for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I doubt anyone does a conversion, but to give you an idea of cost.... A Ford Transit converted by Quigley, is $12,000 extra using all Ford OEM parts.

Having owned and driven a bunch of RWD, especially Volvo 140 and 240 Series Wagons.... 4 studded tire will transform winter driving in the Metris. My van won't arrive until February, but I already ordered the extra set of wheels off Ebay and they are getting a set of Nokian Hakkapeliitta 8 studded tires. I've tried all sorts of studless winter tires and this is still the best option for me.
I have a set of snow tires on the van that helps out great for driving around but I’m talking about parking the van in spots that haven’t been dig out that what I’m really looking for. I do carry a snowblower with me and I do sometimes plow out a spot if I can but that time consuming also I lose space in the cargo area
 

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EPA/Carb certification of Metris 4x4.... Looking at the Sprinter 4x4 in the US, it's sold a 3.0L V6/5spd auto. This drive train is longtime US only and what was certified in 4x2. The rest of the world gets a 3.0L V6/7spd, that isn't certified in the US. I'm thinking by this example it wouldn't be too hard to get a US Metris 4x4, with the existing 2.0 gas/7spd drive train US certified.

Vito Commercial van in Europe, is available as FWD, RWD and 4x4.
First of all, I know some van campers and other specialized needs might like the 4X4 system, but the Vito 4x4 system, like that on the Sprinter, is not a basic 4Matic system adding simple AWD to the van, ala a V250 4Matic or C300 4Matic. Like the Sprinter 4x4 system it is intended for rough terrain and operating in conditions most vehicles can't, and includes higher ground clearance, and optional low range. And it is a substantial ground clearance difference, naturally.



What I also know is MB engineers its vehicles very tightly. The M274 and OM651 are not related engines, and the Vito W447 was originally intended to only accept the OM651. The lead up to the VW diesel scandal (which the good people at MB probably saw coming) resulted in the American version of the Vito being quickly modified to using the M274, which the chassis was never intended for, as the OM651 is incapable of meeting American emissions standards- hence its withdrawal. This has already resulted in problems, one of which is the heating issues- the OM651 is a much less thermally efficient engine and requires more cooling, which is actually too much for the M274, so it runs too cold in frigid weather.

Often with MBs, AWD is not offered in right hand drive markets, because the AWD components need to go where the steering system is placed in those markets. It would not surprise me if the AWD system used in the Vito would not be compatible with the M274, requiring a redesign. That would make selling such a model uneconomical. Given the American obsession with using AWD as a snow traction aide in situations where it really isn't needed (or all that useful, actually), and all the bloody money they are making selling the only AWD commercial van in our market, I would assume the Metris would have gotten that particular system from day one, were it really that plug and play.
 

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First of all, I know some van campers and other specialized needs might like the 4X4 system, but the Vito 4x4 system, like that on the Sprinter, is not a basic 4Matic system adding simple AWD to the van, ala a V250 4Matic or C300 4Matic. Like the Sprinter 4x4 system it is intended for rough terrain and operating in conditions most vehicles can't, and includes higher ground clearance, and optional low range. And it is a substantial ground clearance difference, naturally.



What I also know is MB engineers its vehicles very tightly. The M274 and OM651 are not related engines, and the Vito W447 was originally intended to only accept the OM651. The lead up to the VW diesel scandal (which the good people at MB probably saw coming) resulted in the American version of the Vito being quickly modified to using the M274, which the chassis was never intended for, as the OM651 is incapable of meeting American emissions standards- hence its withdrawal. This has already resulted in problems, one of which is the heating issues- the OM651 is a much less thermally efficient engine and requires more cooling, which is actually too much for the M274, so it runs too cold in frigid weather.

Often with MBs, AWD is not offered in right hand drive markets, because the AWD components need to go where the steering system is placed in those markets. It would not surprise me if the AWD system used in the Vito would not be compatible with the M274, requiring a redesign. That would make selling such a model uneconomical. Given the American obsession with using AWD as a snow traction aide in situations where it really isn't needed (or all that useful, actually), and all the bloody money they are making selling the only AWD commercial van in our market, I would assume the Metris would have gotten that particular system from day one, were it really that plug and play.
From the M-B Germany site....
"The Vito 4x4 is equipped with permanent all-wheel drive, enabling it to handle even the most difficult conditions. With manageable dimensions, highly dynamic handling and agility, the van is exceptionally flexible and responsive. The Vito 4x4 adapts to the situation and provides optimum traction within milliseconds. The drive technology of the Vito 4x4 is based on a rear-wheel drive with a converter automatic transmission and electronically controlled power distribution. The technology is closely related to the all-wheel drive systems in Mercedes-Benz cars. If one or more wheels lose traction, the 4ETS brakes the wheels individually and distributes the power to the wheels with good traction. The system delivers the same effect as three differential locks."

Once again, since it is based on the RWD platform, a different engine could easily be adapted. 4x4 Vito is only available in LHD, but is available in two RHD markets this way.... South Africa and Republic of Ireland. Not listed on UK, Australia or New Zealand M-B sites. These RHD markets get FWD and RWD versions though.

Scroll to bottom of this this page to see an animation of all three Vito drive systems....
https://www.mercedes-benz.co.za/con...n/advantages/dynamics_economy/drivetrain.html
 

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Can it be done? Of course it can. Is it as simple as using the current Metris M274 set up instead of a Vito’s OM651? I do not know. But I do know that it might not be.

Something being doable and something justifying a business case are different.
 

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I have a set of snow tires on the van that helps out great for driving around but I’m talking about parking the van in spots that haven’t been dig out that what I’m really looking for. I do carry a snowblower with me and I do sometimes plow out a spot if I can but that time consuming also I lose space in the cargo area
Sometimes 4WD, especially on a vehicle with low ground clearance isn't going to get you out of really deep snow. My wife's Ram 1500 4X4 has been stuck in very deep snow on a grade. It has pretty good ground clearance. A 4X4 Vito is 2.75" higher than RWD version.
 

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Can it be done? Of course it can. Is it as simple as using the current Metris M274 set up instead of a Vito’s OM651? I do not know. But I do know that it might not be.

Something being doable and something justifying a business case are different.
You are probably right.... Watching a video of Jan ten Haaf from M-B Vans USA, he stresses that the Metris is more of an urban vehicle in the US Market. That would make you think, that they aren't going to be too interested in hobbyists wanting to drive it in the rural rough.

Back to sales numbers.... Metris has to eek out its place in the US Market, as the size van no one else sells. Too bad Ford doesn't sell the Transit Custom and Ram doesn't have a US version of the Fiat Talento, that are the same class as Metris/Vito. Competition for sales, but at least there would be a class to compete in! To many buyers, its just too tempting to step down to a Transit Connect or Pro Master City. Their way lower price makes it easy to over look the smaller size and lesser capabilities. A lot of Metris passenger van buyers think they are getting a cheap deal on a V Class van and are disappointed.

For me it's just perfect.... I already own a Sprinter for work and don't want a second one, as even a low roof 2500/144 wheelbase is just too big. I also hate the presently only available Sprinter V6/5 spd drive train. The Ford and Ram small vans are too small for my needs in hauling. Then the next thing is as you know, expense and all.... once you own and drive a M-B, even a commercial one.... other vehicles just feel like less.
 

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Not production, importation.

When MB set out it’s plans on the Metris it was with a 50/50 split pax to cargo- its more like 15/85. They are practically giving the things away- you can walk out the door with a new Metris for well under $25k for a Cargo or $27k for a passenger. And the sales projection was 15k to 25k a year- they moved just under 6k I’m 2016, and 7.5k last year. You be the judge of them wanting to engineer and federalize a AWD system for gas versions that likely won’t sell very much-

If that AWD system cost the $6200 they charge for it in Europe, how many would actually check the box?
Mercedes itself might be at fault. I haven't seen or at least remeber seen any advertising for a metris, not saying there aren't any I just haven't happened to see one. But I have seen for the Sprinter,Transit, Transit connect, Pro Master and Promaster city, etc.
 

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What I also know is MB engineers its vehicles very tightly. The M274 and OM651 are not related engines, and the Vito W447 was originally intended to only accept the OM651. The lead up to the VW diesel scandal (which the good people at MB probably saw coming) resulted in the American version of the Vito being quickly modified to using the M274, which the chassis was never intended for, as the OM651 is incapable of meeting American emissions standards- hence its withdrawal. This has already resulted in problems, one of which is the heating issues- the OM651 is a much less thermally efficient engine and requires more cooling, which is actually too much for the M274, so it runs too cold in frigid weather..
I sthe M274 not the same Gas engine offered in Europe for the petrol version of the V250?
 
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